Very Sour Dyno Results...Please HELP! New info page 7!

I recently got around to getting my Trac on the dyno and have the new computer tuned. The results were a letdown and the tuner wasn't able to get any more power out of the car on the fuel/boost level I was running.

Relevant Modifications:
-K&N Panel filter(stock air intake system still intact including AFM, although the AFM is not being used to control anything)
-KO Racing Street Brawler turbo kit, T3/T4/46trim.
-ST185RC WTA intercooler, thermal barrier coated to prevent heatsoak(or at least try to prevent it).
-AFCO twin pass Mustang Cobra heat exchanger for the intercooler coolant.
-ViPEC engine management system
-EBC set at approx 17-18psi
-ATS Racing bored factory fuel rail
-ATS Racing 170degree thermostat
-800cc SARD side feed injectors
-Walbro in-tank fuel pump
-NGK Spark plugs, one step colder than stock and gapped according to the Power Primer.
-New plug wires/cap/rotor
-3inch exhaust(no cat)
-94octane fuel
-ACT 6 Puck Clutch
-TVIS set to open at ~3800rpm
-Supposed to have been tuned @ 11.5:1 AFR as per my instructions.
-Stock cams/intake manifold/exhaust manifold etc etc. Engine has not been opened.
-Just over 70,000miles.


Here's a pic of the dyno results that I was given when I went to pick up the car.


She only managed to pull 225awhp and 220lb.ft. of torque. I'm not sure why my torque also drops off the face of the planet like it does either. I don't have any other info such as AFR/timing etc, although I did ask the tuner for that info and it was forgotten when I received my reply e-mail from them.

The tuner mentioned how the car was not breathing properly at higher RPM's and thought it was the ST185RC intercooler that was the restriction. Also in the e-mail that I just received it was mentioned that he tuned it up to that level and if he tried to tune it more aggressively he would get detonation. The car used to idle somewhat rough(hunting between 500-800rpm) when at operating temperature. The idle now is a little better(although at 1100rpm but I'm thinking that's because of the larger injectors) and when first started and the engine is cold she'll struggle at 600rpm for a bit.

Does anyone have any suggestions/clues/hints/guestimates/8-ball answers as to where the heck I'm losing my power? A year and a half ago I had my timing belt replaced at Toyota, as well as a check on my compression and everything turned out well. When I get back from work I'll be double checking the timing but I'm not sure if that is the issue or not because generally the car runs quite well and pulls decently. I know the stock air intake is probably robbing me of some power, as is the AFM remaining in the way, but I can't see it killing the engine that horribly. I'm GUESSING I should be putting down around 275awhp(conservative guess perhaps?), and not the 225awhp I ended up with.

PLEASE HELP!! :doh:

the only thing i see "missing" from your mod list is an adjustable FPR

i would definitely check the timing - should be @ 10* BTDC

if you can monitor the AFR's that would provide some good info also.

so sorry to see those low numbers w/a good turbo kit

The only things I would change:

Your intercooler is in the wrong place.. why put it where all the heat is going?

Get rid of that stock intake and airbox!! Make yourself a nice 3" straight intake and put a cone filter on it.





I had pretty much the same issue as you. No power! I was running my Greddy TD06-20G kit with the stock intake and airbox, and the stock top mount IC. I was running 13.9 @ 98mph on this setup at 12psi.

I changed to a front mount intercooler and made a 3" intake and ran 13.3 @ 102 mph. The car felt much faster.

Cams/intake are really holding you back. Notice how the power really starts to dive at the higher RPMs due to lack of flow. The stock cams suck pretty bad for high RPM power. I personally don't think the RC intercooler is holding you back that much since other have made decent power with it, but later on it will be a restriction. I would want to see the intake temps before assuming the RC intercooler cant handle it (on a side note, where is your intake temp sensor? Hopefully not in the AFM still). A 46trim turbo at only 18 psi really wont make tons of power to begin with on a 3sgte, but if you compound it with the poor top end flow you really start to lose power. Also, depending on the dyno you could be seeing lower numbers then expected. Simply going from one brand of dyno to another can give you a 10% gain/loss in power. With a little time and patience we can get this all straightened out

1. change intercooler
2. changer tuner

I would say cam timing could be out...

What would you say his realistic power output should be, from just looking at the mods.

reality wise with the mods he has it's not that bad. he has spent a lot of money but certainly has not changed the right things. the intake is really holding you back. i'd bet 20whp from an intake swap to a straight one with no afm on it. and i'd like to see the ignition map for the timing. sounds like it might be wrong.
the torque curve (i believe) is supposed to drop like that.
when are you seeing full boost? looks like around 4500-5000 rpm? something is wrong there. that should be much lower.

what kind of dyno? i cant see the graph.

Would expect close to 360-380hp @ the fly

AFM isnt as big a restrictor as people think...

Seen a Chargecooler make 380hp @ the fly so doubt thats restricting either...

Mine made simialar to that with stock ecu @.9bar and 440's..

i would also dig into that idle issue. i'd bet you'd find the problem there. perhaps a vacuum leak? wouldn't suprise me. your car should be idling perfect. my injectors are up there with yours and i have no issues idling.

Just a disclaimer... been awhile since my shizzle has been on the dyno.

So.. this vipec ECU? Is it 16, 32, 64, 128 bit? Maybe it is too slow?

And I agree, AFM can't have much restriction at your level.

And OE heat range plugs shouldn't be an issue at your power levels IMO.

And seriously, Wayne, your fascination with plastic is insane! LOL!

I know everyone is going to jump all over me for this, but my car (pretty close in mods except for the Street Brawler) was doing something similar. It turned out that the knock sensor was pulling timing even though the car wasn't really knocking. My tuner turned this off and tuned the car more conservatively and its night and day. Not advocating that its the best option, but it might be that the knock sensor is the issue

As far as the FPR, I'm running the uprated ATS one along with the modified fuel rail, which I think you are probably running too. I wish I had dyno numbers for you. I was pulling 214 (albeit with pretty aggressive timing) to the wheels on a dynapack before changing the whole knock sensor issue.

Also make sure your TVIS is working. I thought this might be my issue in the top end.

Oh.. and get rid of that stock intake and AFR...

Everyone on this forum wants to get rid of that from the second they get the car but can't b/c the don't have an aftermarket ECU...

You have an ECU and are hanging on to it... Liberate the beast and let everyone live vicariously through you.

Nothing wrong with stock AFM until about 275-300 wheel hp IMO.[/b]

Noisy valve train. Can cause knock sensor to go wild also exhaust leak...

bridge47":1xfkquee said:

And seriously, Wayne, your fascination with plastic is insane! LOL!

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Plastic? Those puppies are 100% real. My motto has always been "If you can touch them, they are real."

RedCelicaTRD":etok5cpc said:

bridge47":etok5cpc said:

And seriously, Wayne, your fascination with plastic is insane! LOL!

Click to expand...

Plastic? Those puppies are 100% real. My motto has always been "If you can touch them, they are real."

Click to expand...

can you touch them?
:wink:

Holy crap. Page two...that fast? I definitely think that Alltrac/GT-FOUR owners have the best support group. Time to go through these messages again to refresh my memory.

I'm wondering if I should actually get an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. I am not sure if it does, or does not have anything to do with my dyno numbers, but I was under the impression the stock FPR is adequate for my setup. If I'm wrong someone who knows the answer to this 100% please correct me on this. If that's the case then that will be another thing I have to add to the "to-do list" for the car.

I really don't think the ST185RC intercooler is choking my engine that badly. Also after a few hard runs the coolant is still cold. It appears that the 2000degree thermal barrier coating I had ceramic coated on the core is paying off.

"Mafix", I guess I will swap out the stock intake setup. Hopefully it frees up a bit of power. Also, what is your opinion on which are the "right" things to upgrade? My plan was to make a decent amount of power on an unopened engine on pump fuel. The cost of this whole thing has ballooned quite a bit past what I was expecting to spend so now it's either I give up and leave it as it is and fix the current issues, or spend another wad of cash listening to people who are currently making good power on their cars(and potentially piss of the wife. :evil. I'm still undecided on this.

I probably do have a vac leak...I found one the other day when poking around in the engine bay(this one was obvious), and Lightspeed Innovations said they fixed a few as well. The turbo seems somewhat...lazy...below 3000rpm. 3000rpm and up is where she begins to get happy and build boost and I'd guess she's at full boost around 4000rpm(haven't paid a huge amount of attention to this lately).

As far as exhaust leaks go I guess I should double check all that stuff. I just recently fixed a horrible one where the manifold/head meet. I don't think there are any other's down the line but I'll make sure. I am actually debating getting a custom made 2.75inch exhaust system to mate up with the downpipe that was supplied with the KO SB kit. My Motoria exhaust rattles a lot now and the fitment is excessively tight and I'm wondering if a 3inch exhaust is even needed for my final power level after all is finished with the car. I really don't expect to break 300awhp on this turbo/pump gas combo.

"tissimo", the tune was done on a Dynapack AWD dyno.

"bridge47", I'm not too savy when it comes to ECU brands/features etc. The Vi-PEC model I got has these stats:


As for the "plastic"...I bought my wife a set for Christmas and if you get the right kind(Cohesive gel or something) they sure as shit feel like the real thing(pictures e-mailed to the first one who flies/drives up here to fix my car for me...lol)

Anyhow back on topic here, not fair to mention such...unmentionables while I'm stuck in camp where 99% of the people are guys. :shoots:

So when I get back home here's the list of what's going on with the car:
1)Check cam timing.
2)Check for vac leaks.
3)Check for exhaust leaks.
4)Remove stock intake/afm and install something better.

Depending on what other advice I get, and from whom gives said advice, I may or may not make the wife a deal and upgrade things further.

I may or may not make the wife a deal and upgrade things further.

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i so want to joke, but i know that you are being rather serious about the current situation with the car......

did the tune shop check AFR?