help with visual styling

lumbercis

Moderator
I'd like some help figuring out what makes the "stance" of this supra look the way it does

(Note: if you want to see the pics side-by-side, they are in my gallery)
Exibit 1:

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1052

Exibit 2: (Still cool, but note lack of aggressive "stance")

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1053

And finally, a bad pic of my trac in it's current configuration. Same color. Same rims. But where's that stance? My rims are 17" not sure about the tire specs off the top of my head, but i can add that later if it's important.

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1051

My question is, what makes the first supra look so aggressive, and how would I emulate that on my trac? I say emulate because, even if i knew the wheel/tire specs, i don't think you could just slap the same sizes on an alltrac. The supra has a much bulkier looking body style, so what looks good on it may be too big for a trac. But I'm interested in keeping the same relative look. Anyway, here are my best guesses:

1. His volks are bigger than mine. 19"s?
2. He's rocking lower profile tires
3. He's slammed down on coilovers
4. It's a Supra, they always look more aggressive.

I think it's some combo of the first 3, since the other Supra doesn't have that same aggressive look. A better way of looking at it might be, what makes the first supra different from the second? Your insight is greatly appreciated.

J.
 

BanhBaoBao

New member
Loweredness combined with low profile/big rims as well as the high spoiler giving a "slanted" aggressive look to it IMO.
 

turbo4wd

Moderator
lumbercis":2v6j564l said:
1. His volks are bigger than mine. 19"s?
2. He's rocking lower profile tires
3. He's slammed down on coilovers
4. It's a Supra, they always look more aggressive.

You answered your own question dude.. Not to mention the fact the cabin of the Supra is more rearward than the Alltrac.. so it gives that long hood look similar to the Viper.. if you sit an Alltrac next to a Supra, the Alltrac looks bigger..
 

lumbercis

Moderator
don't low-profile tires change the rolling diameter? what effects does this have?

if you had to guess at the specs what would you say? and what specs would work on an alltrac to get a similar look?

sorry for all the questions, but i don't know jack about wheels/tires

J.
 

SuperWhite92

New member
He's lower than your alltrac, and he has a bit more rake. If you lower your car further, and keep the back just higher than the front it looks super aggressive.

edit: Like this:


2913_p23445.jpg


2913_p23442.jpg


Those are Intrax Springs on that car BTW. They give the aggressive stance, but to get the same stance as the supra, they still need to go a bit lower.
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
Here is my opinion on the matter.

0) Camera angle: This can make and break a car. Most cars can look pretty lame at poor angles. Those supras might be exactly the same, but a bad angle can throw the whole car off.

1) Lowering:
Celica's even the gt-s model look conciderably better when lowered. And the better look tends to come from being lowered slightly more than what is benificial. Find a celica that has been lowered ~3". When the top of the tire is level with the fender well or tucked in it, it gives a much better look. Look at the more agressive supra pic. His wheels are slightly tucket, and fall just above the fender line. This helps the look.

2) Rims:
There are various ways to make the wheels look right in a car.
Ona note of your wheels vs the supras wheels. Look at the face. The face on your wheels arches out wards. While the face on the front supra wheel is near flat and the rear is dipped. This adds to an agressive look. A car with dipped all around makes a car look very tough. Check out what it does to the 350z.

All these cars have 18" wheels but they look larger than others for various reasons.

This is a stock track model:
http://www.350zmotoring.com/gallery/dat ... line_1.jpg

This is a stock enthusiest model.
http://www.350zmotoring.com/gallery/dat ... 3_0322.JPG

This is a model that has been lowered and has 18x9.5 all around.
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/e8759063a5.jpg


here is the lesson:
Now, even though all the wheels are 18" they all look like they fit the car very differently. The enthusiest models wheels look larger than the track model's wheels and the nismo rims look larger than both.

a) Offset makes a wheel look larger. By being tucked further in, it makes the wheels appear smaller. Offset is very key to this. The width is also a larger part of this, but much of the time a wider wheel brings the lip or face of the wheel close to the edge of the fender. This is especialy noticable when you look at a car downward.

b) Lip. Notice the 18's of the enthusiest model look larger than the 18s of the track model. Notice the enthusiest model has no lip. The spokes continue to the tire, giving the effect that is is a larger wheel. Even though a lip looks good on a car, wheels with lips might look more fitting on a celica if they are 18s.

Here is my track model next to an enthusiest model to show you how they compare.
http://www.350zmotoring.com/gallery/dat ... cn2582.jpg

The fender wells on the celica have a much larger radius than a stock ratio tire can fill. You will have to go larger. A tire that fits the arch of the fender. Next you need a wheel that looks right in that tire size. 17 will be a minumum. I will show you some examples of wheels on alltracs that accomplish some of this effect.

Bob's alltrac. It is actually on 16" wheels. But the offset/width and being dished gives a nice aggressive appearance. Also note the tire size and how it relates to the arch of the fender. Wide wheels automaticly make the car look more aggresssive anyway.
rgt0fs.jpg


This car does another method. The tires are not as wide, but the diameter fits the fender arch well and the lowered height makes it fit well against the tire. It also has a fairly aggresive offset.
morikawa4po.jpg


Now this car only has it half right. Look how the rears look aggressive, while the fronts don't look right.
Having a larger wheel that fits the fender line well and is dished makes it look much more aggressive while the front looks like the offset is too low compared to the rear dwarfing its size.
celicat1865cz.jpg


While this car with the same kit semed to make it look better by make a better choice for the fonts to better match the rears.
ac131gf.jpg


Then look at this car. The offset and width really make it aggressive. Even though it only has 17" wheels the face having such close contact to the lip helps give it a larger impression.
f5b53jd.jpg


Fenders:
Now look at the fenders of the alltrac and compare them to the fenders of the supra.
The celica has blister fenders flares which makes it look agressive but the top of the rear quarter panel of the supra makes it look more aggressive. its gives the whole car a nice width. The supra als has more hard lines than the celica which may aide this look.
One item to really concider is the roll of the fenders. This is something I notice on a lot of cars. The way the fender rolls under neath can make the wheels look diffrerent. Just slightly though. The rear celica fenders go straight back, and don't look right.

Body: The body is a huge key in the stance as well, and the celica has one major flaw that makes it 1) harder to look right with a lip, and 2) looked stupid in certain angles. The long front overhang.
This alone makes it very difficult for one to adjust the look of the celica.
If a lip kit could be designed to make the over hang not seem so extreme this could really help improve the look of the car.

Also note the side skirts. if the side skirts of a celica are too low they make the car almost seem too skinny. This is another issue to avoid. If something could be made to make the car seem slightly lower and help the lines blend better with the wheels it may help.

Lastly the rear bumper. The arch upward at the bottom of the bumper is a good line for the car, however the exposed gas tank takes away from this. Look at this rear skirt and see how covering up the gas tank makes the car look more aggressive.
celicat18rs.jpg


My suggestion to maybe make your car look a little more agressive would be:

1) Rolling the fenders.
2) Lowering it slightly more.
3) Getting longer wheel studs on the front and add a spacer to bring the wheel out. And get a wider spacer on the rear to make it match.

This might help some towards what you seek.

.2psi
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
Here is an idea of what a black gtfour with 18" flat faced version of that wheel might look like.

gt4pitroad2kk8zf.jpg
 

lumbercis

Moderator
@CMS-GT4

thanks for the exhaustive reply! You've really put some thought into this.
You actually already answered my next question which was going to be how to get closer to that look with my current rims. Would you not suggest going with lower profile tires? Im currently on Kumho Ecsta Supra 215/45ZR17 with Intrax springs (not sure of the drop though, PO installed). Would I need coilovers to get that low of a drop? There's currently just a 1in spacer in the rear.

Second question then is, how to get that look if i was starting from scratch with new rims. Maybe use less spacers but get more offset? I think the photoshop shows that 18"s would look too big on the trac. Is that what you think the supra is running? I think the bulkier body style (or maybe the shape of the fenders) allows supras to get away with big wheels without looking ridiculous. I actually thought the original SE37K's on the Pit Road GT-4 looked damn big. They are 17x8.0 +38 with 225/45-17 tires.

Interesting discussion!

J.
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
As far as tires go, first we need to look at how wide you wheels are.

You are running a pretty tall rolling radius already vs stock. I would go down to a 40 profile and raise the width. We need to know how wide your wheels are to see how wide we can go.

So the wheel style you got seems fine as a 17".

If it were me, and I had the cash to blow. I would get a set of wheels that were 17x9 with the proper offsets all around to not need psacers and run 255/40/17 tires. I would run a 35 profile tire if they made a decent one in that size.

These are the same wheels I am about to install on my car except I will be running the tire size I just listed. Martin is running 275/40, which has quite a larger rolling diameter than stock. Almost looks too meaty. I still like it a lot.

pic27%20(Medium).jpg
 

lumbercis

Moderator
My best guess is that ive got 17x8. According to the wheelspecs.com site, the 17" te37's with our bolt pattern come in 17x7.5 +48, 17x8 +38 or +46, and 17x8.5 +50. It seems that +38 is the most common offset used on our cars, so im guessing thats what the PO got. Are you able to eyeball offset??? Maybe you have a better guess than me.

You mentioned im running a tall profile s. stock. What is the stock profile? Is there any reason not to run a 35 profile with my wheels, or are they just hard to find?

J.
 

Jay_Tech

New member
I love my body Kit but the stickers were made on Photoshop so my car has no stickers I just did it to see how it looked liked.
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
lumbercis":mjn5waw0 said:
My best guess is that ive got 17x8. According to the wheelspecs.com site, the 17" te37's with our bolt pattern come in 17x7.5 +48, 17x8 +38 or +46, and 17x8.5 +50. It seems that +38 is the most common offset used on our cars, so im guessing thats what the PO got. Are you able to eyeball offset??? Maybe you have a better guess than me.

You mentioned im running a tall profile s. stock. What is the stock profile? Is there any reason not to run a 35 profile with my wheels, or are they just hard to find?

J.

Look on your wheel. Volk prints the size usually on the inside of the rim. We need to know this info first.
 

lumbercis

Moderator
CMS-GT4":ejhd642a said:
Look on your wheel. Volk prints the size usually on the inside of the rim. We need to know this info first.

Okay, i finally found that sticker after cleaning some of the grime off the inside of the wheel. I was totally off. They are 17x7 +30 front and rear, with a 1in spacer on the rear.

J.
 
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